Lorraine: I think it’s much easier to have less empathy when you’re talking about this general concept than it is to hear one-on-one stories. I'm sure if I sat down face to face with a lot of pro-life people, they would realize I'm a human who made a really tough decision.
Niko: I always tell people that it was simultaneously the most, like, spiritual and transformative and healing and loving experience of my whole life.
Andi: I was like, why did I just have to go through all this alone? And why isn't it talked about more?
Asia: People think that if you don't ever speak up about anything, like, ‘oh, what is my voice going to do? What does that matter? I'm just one person.’ But if I can stand up for at least one person, even if that person is just me, then that makes a difference.
[Theme Song swells and establishes]
Terra Lopez, Host: Hi, I’m Terra Lopez and you’re listening to “This Is What It Feels Like.”
[Theme song fades out]
Terra: On June 24, 2022, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, the historical legislation that made access to abortion care a federal right in the U.S.
[Transition music begins and goes under]
[News Clip waterfall begins]
“This is a blockbuster announcement. The Supreme Court has voted to overturn Roe v Wade.”
“This is the case that involves Roe v Wade, established 49 years ago…”
“Political and social reverberations of this decision will be immense …”
“Outside the Mississippi Clinic at the heart of today’s Supreme Court decision …”
“We do abortion and we’re proud to do abortion …”
“I had to look people in the eye and turn them away.”
Terra: That decision ended 50 years of legal protection and allowed individual states to restrict or outright ban abortion altogether.
[Transition music fades out]
Terra: Since then, there’s been at least 13 states that now have total abortion bans; with dozens of abortion clinics closing all over the South. There’s confusion amongst physicians when it comes to what care they can and can no longer provide. And there’s also this palpable collective fear and anxiety amongst many when it comes to what the future holds.
I personally have never had an abortion. But I’ve known and loved friends and family members who have. And honestly, we all know and love someone who has either already had an abortion or who will. According to the World Health Organization, over 73 million abortions take place worldwide each year, with 6 out of 10 unintended pregnancies ending in an abortion.
[Transition music begins and goes under]
Terra: For this episode, I wanted to speak to folks who have had abortions. I went into these conversations knowing very little about the actual experience. What the process was like, how you found resources? Or how does this affect your mental health?
Of course, I’ve read articles and seen the conversations on Twitter but I really wasn’t aware of the full spectrum. The emotions that it can bring, the questions, the doubts, the trauma. But also the beauty and the transformations.
I spoke to Lorraine, Asia, Niko, and Andi all separately over Zoom, just weeks before Roe V. Wade was overturned.
And even though they all have such unique stories, and they live in separate parts of the country, it was clear that no matter how they came to the decision to have an abortion, there was still so much within making that choice. It was layered and complex.
From CapRadio, “This Is What It Feels Like,” where we share stories directly from voices that have been historically overlooked.
“This Is What It Feels Like”… to have an abortion.
[Transition music ends]
Lorraine: My name is Lorraine Allard and I currently live in Brooklyn, NY
Terra: Lorraine was 17 years old when she found out that she was pregnant.
Lorraine: I definitely knew before I took the pregnancy test but was in denial about it because I was 17 at the time and was like, how am I going to get the money or the resources? I live in Los Angeles, I don't have a car. My mom is very Catholic, so I couldn't go to my parents about abortion.
Terra: She went to a friend’s house, where she secretly took two pregnancy tests. Both were positive. She says that she only told one person. Otherwise, she kept the news to herself.
Lorraine: Your reputation with your friends is everything. Like, your social group is everything. And so, I couldn't emotionally handle having my social group judge me or shame me or question if I was making the right choice. So it felt like something I had to keep a secret.
Terra: Lorraine said that she felt a lot of shame which made her feel like she needed to figure out her next steps alone.
Lorraine: When you're 17, you're used to your parents navigating, like, scheduling your doctor's appointments and asking the right questions for your doctors. If you have to take antibiotics, it's not up to you at that age. So it was pretty difficult to figure out what to do next.
Terra: She first called her local Planned Parenthood but was told there weren't any available appointments for months. Luckily, there was a local hospital within walking distance from her parents house where she was able to make an appointment.
Lorraine: I did not feel supported by the people there. I had to do the process alone. And so the easiest way for me to cope was just to check out as much as I could.
The physical abortion was actually pretty rough. They were struggling to get all the tissue out of my body. And so I remember the pain medication wearing off and them still trying to get more out and not being able to. And after that, they decided to give me the abortion pill to make sure that everything was fully taken care of.
Terra: She says that she went home that night not knowing what to expect from taking the pill. The doctors hadn’t really told her what was going to happen and she was in too much of a daze to ask. It was about a week later when she had her second abortion.
Lorraine: I've been camping in Kern River and we are on our way back from the camping trip to Los Angeles and the rest of everything came out and I was like soaked in blood in the car with my friends who had no idea that I had an abortion. And I had to run into a fast food restaurant and I remember looking into the toilet and there was just chunks of tissue in the toilet and I just had to be like, ‘Oh, I got my period. Oops, does anyone have a tampon?’ And luckily we had been camping so I had extra clothes in the car. But like probably just I mean, my lap was completely soaked in blood. That was a little traumatic for sure.
Terra: Lorraine says that beyond the trauma of that incident, she also felt depressed.
Lorraine: I was really sad. I was really sad. At the time, it made me feel like I could not rely on anybody because the experience was so painful. I remember just kind of laying around the house and watching TV all week and just not really engaging with anybody or not wanting to be around anybody. I'm someone who's always had a million hobbies and have a lot going on, so I just remember being so stressed out that I didn't want to get out of bed.
Terra: She continued to keep her abortion a secret, from friends but especially from her family.
Lorraine: So I had one instance after my abortion where I was in the kitchen and I think some of it ended up getting billed to my parents and my dad very calmly asked me if I was pregnant and I said no. And then never brought it up again. Which that's exactly what I needed at the time, was just like, ‘okay, as long as you're good, we're good. I'm not going to pry.’
I pretty much tried my best to suppress the whole experience until I reached my early 20s and then I started to realize people around me had had abortions or I had friends who were in the process of getting an abortion. And that started to help me realize like, oh, this isn't something that's shameful, this is something that's normal. This is something that people need to do and know themselves well enough and understand their bodies well enough if that's something that they can handle at the moment.
Terra: What are aspects of abortion that you think folks get wrong?
Lorraine: I think people think it's an easy decision. I think people think it's a thoughtless decision. And even though I was 17, I knew I couldn't handle a kid. There's obviously some questions in the back of my mind if I was making the right choice. It's not an easy choice no matter what you do.
Terra: What would you say to your younger self?
Lorraine: I would say that that shame is not yours to carry and that the people who love you are going to support you and know that you are doing the right thing for yourself at the time.
Terra: Now, Lorraine says it’s easier to talk about her abortion. Aside from her friends, she’s told her sister and says that she would tell her three younger brothers if it ever got brought up in conversation but she still has not been able to tell her mom.
Lorraine: I don't know how my mom would respond still. And that's just kind of, I think, part of the problem. When it's religious based, they fail to see the trauma in the experience for the individual because they're so focused on their beliefs and they don't want to have that experience and that trauma dismissed. It's just not worth it.
[Transition music begins and goes under]
Terra: Why is it important for you to share your story?
Lorraine: If I had access to these stories, I don't think I would have felt as isolated or as alone or as ashamed. I think there's all these myths around like who gets abortions and why? And I think the louder people are about their experiences, the more we can normalize it. I think it's much easier to have less empathy when you're talking about this general concept than it is to hear one-on-one stories. I'm sure if I sat down face to face with a lot of pro-life people and had an open dialogue with them, they would realize I'm a human who made a really tough decision. That I'm not this hypothetical concept. That I'm not like this theory or large political debate. That I'm like a real person who had to make a really hard decision that was the best thing for myself in the long run.
[Transition music comes up and then fades under]
Terra: Niko Belotte and I connected one afternoon over Zoom. She lives in San Francisco and it's where she also had her abortion. Like Lorraine, she says that she knew she was pregnant before she even took a test.
Niko: I was still completely shocked. Like, I know it sounds funny to say I was so surprised, even though I knew at the same time, but, yeah, I had a hard time just kind of like, coming to terms with it in that moment.
Terra: Niko tells me that she knew that having an abortion was the right thing for her but despite that, a lot of feelings came up. She was 30 and says she felt a lot of shame around her age.
Niko: That was just like, you're too old. You should have figured out how to do this by now. You shouldn't be dealing with this.
Terra: Despite that shame, she tells me that this entire experience was life-changing and made her feel the most connected to her body and spirit.
Niko: Oh my gosh, it was, honestly, when I have to sum up my experience with an abortion in just, like, one easy sentence, I always tell people that it was simultaneously the most, like, spiritual and transformative and healing and loving experience of my whole life.
Terra: The physical effects of being pregnant — the nausea, the fatigue, the aches — all of it made her look at her body in such a new light.
Niko: And that was super powerful for me because I would identify as someone who's pretty healthy, has a healthy lifestyle, has a pretty healthy body. And I realized I kind of had always treated my body as, like, this efficiency or productivity machine where it was like my conversation internally was like, ‘we need to be doing more, and let's run more miles, and let's do more exercise and accomplish more.’ That was always kind of the narrative, and my body didn't really have its own voice to be like, ‘hey, let's wait a second, or let's rest.’ That wasn't something that really happened until I was pregnant. And then suddenly it was like, I'm too tired to exercise, and I kind of feel sick. And it's like, wow. I never had really allowed my body to have its own voice or wisdom. That was really powerful for me. So that was really cool. Like, sure, I had doubts, I had fears. I had the stigma. So much was in the background but it was just at my core, I knew this was right.
Terra: Also like Lorraine, Niko didn’t tell her family. In fact, she still hasn’t. She says that she’d tell her mom if she was asked but says she didn’t want to worry about having to manage other people’s feelings.
Terra: Can you walk us through that day?
Niko: This is, like, a part of it that I feel like no one really talks about. For me, I wanted to know, like, I wanted to know, like, all the details and sure, like, I had a great OBGYN, and, like, I have health insurance. I have a very privileged story. I also live in a place that's very supportive. While I was pregnant and getting ready, I was like, ‘well, what can I expect?’ You know? Like, I was searching on the Internet, and, you know, I did find a lot of information on, like, what's actually going on at, like, week four or week five, but it was all for the happy, expectant mother. Like, your baby is the size of a pea. And I was like, ‘Why can't this just be translated for somebody who's going to have an abortion?’ And I did find one resource that was put together by an abortion doula. There was definitely a lack of resources, I think, when I had mine. But I was kind of presented with two options.
[Transition music begins and goes under]
Terra: The two options are the abortion pill and an in-clinic abortion. Medication abortion consists of taking two different pills to end a pregnancy. These pills cause the cramping and bleeding that empties the uterus. An in-clinic abortion — also known as a surgical abortion — is a medical procedure, it works by using suction to empty the uterus.
Niko ended up having a medication abortion. She had a friend there with her in the doctor’s office, holding her hand during it all.
Niko: I just remember my friend saying this is a loving act, like what you're doing, like this is an act of love. It was exactly what I needed to hear, honestly, in that moment, like the most perfect words that I could have asked for in that moment.
Terra: But two weeks later while at a check-up, she found out that not all of the tissue had been taken out. She had to undergo the surgical procedure and have a second abortion.
After the procedure, she tells me that several of her friends supported her by dropping off groceries or sending her care packages. But the biggest thing was that they listened to her.
Niko: I would just say if you want to support someone, just really show up for their experience and don't feel like you need to have your own opinions involved or anything like that. I felt the most supported by people who just tried to mirror my experience back to me.
Terra: And Niko tells me that her abortion has made her realize she does want to be a mother one day.
Niko: I remember going through a run through Golden Gate Park at Sunset and just having this really emotional experience at sunset where I was just crying. And I felt like I was releasing weeks of everything that I had gone through and just had this really profound realization of, like, wow, the line between grief and relief is so thin. But the space between getting pregnant and getting an abortion is so vast. There's so much space there to have so many feelings and thoughts, and it was just, wow, this was such a big experience that really encapsulated every insecurity I ever had. All my childhood trauma coming to the surface, every fear I'd ever had, everything all rolled into this one experience. It solidified the feeling that I had had my whole life, which is like, I want to be a mother someday. 100 percent was like, I can't wait to do this for real when it feels right for me.
Terra: What do you think people don’t understand about abortion?
Niko: I think the number one thing that folks get wrong is just, like, how normal it is. One in four women before the age of 45 will have an abortion. That is so normal. It's so complicated and complex, and it's not just a black and white thing. When you talk to, like, a person who had an abortion, you start to get this richness, but when it's just like, this politicized narrative, you kind of miss out on that. Yeah, it is both easy and hard, and it is, like, you feel really confident or empowered, but also you feel, like, kind of scared and insecure and doubtful. And that's just my experience, I should say. I do have a friend who, like, was such a source of strength for me, who said ‘My abortion was, like, the most empowering day of my life. It was in and out. I went to McDonald's afterwards and ate some fries. I never thought about it again.’
[Transition music begins and goes under]
Terra: Coming up, Asia has an abortion and deals with an unsupportive partner.
[Transition music out]
[Sponsorship break]
Asia: My name is Asia, and I live in Mount Laurel, New Jersey.
Terra: Asia was a senior in college living in Pennsylvania when she found out that she was pregnant.
Asia: I remember being in my dorm room taking a pregnancy test. It turning positive. And it was like, ‘what am I going to do?’ I think the first person I told was my mom, and I cried to her because I was like, ‘I don't know what to do. I'm about to graduate college. I feel like I have my whole life ahead of me. I don't know how to handle this.’ And I remember my partner at the time, I remember telling him, and he felt like I didn't include him in my decision. He just felt like, everyone told you, this is what you're going to do. And we never talked about it. And it was actually, you know, the movie “Knocked Up.” The year that movie came out is when this happened to me. So he said to me, “They made it work in that movie. Why can't we do that?” And I'm like, this is our real lives. You're comparing our real lives to a comedy movie? Like, this isn't funny.
Terra: Asia says that despite having health insurance, she had a difficult time navigating where to go for an abortion.
Asia: I remember feeling, like, embarrassed and, like, afraid and, like, ashamed to be making these phone calls and, like, just no one really being there for me during that time. Like, my partner included. At the time, I had health insurance through my school. And at the time I'm a young adult, I don't know how any of that stuff works. And no one to really ask. So kind of just figuring it out on my own. It was a lot.
Terra: Eventually, she found a local clinic that would work with her insurance.
Terra: Can you walk us through that day?
Asia: That morning, I remember just being so upset, so afraid, and my partner is down at the beach hanging out with his friends. So my mom went with me. And this is very common, but it makes the situation worse. There are protesters outside, like, anti-abortion people outside of the clinic, and then going inside, and then they ask you kind of like, ‘are you sure you really want to go through with this?’ I remember sitting almost in a room full of other people who were there for the same reason and just so many emotions in that room between the other people and myself, which is, like, heightening my feelings. And then they bring you in for the procedure. And the last thing I remember is them saying to me, like, ‘oh, you're eight weeks, so you caught this just in time.’ So, those words kind of haunted me for a little while.
And then I remember, you wake up in a room, and then once you're kind of good to go, everything wears off, you can go home. And my mom was driving me home, and I was okay for a minute. And I just remember breaking down and crying my eyes out, like, did I make the right decision?
Terra: She says that her partner at the time didn’t help the situation.
Asia: He brought up again, how he just feels like he had no say in this. Our family has just decided for us. And then I can recall a night where he had called me really late at night. He was out with his friends, drinking and is just, like, berating me over the phone. And, like, those words to this day, like, they stay in my mind of just, like, him saying to me, like, ‘you're such a whore. You're a baby killer.’ And I felt guilty because it was like, I took this away from him. I internalized it and blamed myself instead of realizing at the time, this is so unhealthy. Like, why am I doing this to myself?
Terra: Asia didn’t tell many people, except for her best friend and her parents. She tried her best to suppress it over the years and to move on but it was catching up to her. It wasn’t until she sought out therapy years later that she was able to even say the word “abortion.” And up until this interview, she still couldn’t really bring herself to say the word.
Asia: I think until I had the phone call with you, I refused to use the word abortion. Like, I couldn't say it. Even all these years. So, like, you know, when you go to the doctor, you get a checkup and everything? I either would never mention it, or I would just say that, like, I terminated a pregnancy. I just didn't want people to look at me differently.
Terra: Asia tells me that telling her story is healing for her and that it’s helping her get to a place where she can more confidently own her story of having an abortion.
Asia: Today I kind of had a light bulb moment. So I started a new job and it's not going great, but that's okay. But I was like, what is the universe trying to teach me right now? And I realized it was like, I need to speak up for myself. I tend to be a little bit more like soft spoken, quiet, I don't like conflict, that sort of thing. And then I'm like, you know what, it's funny that this happened at work today and I made the decision to stand up for myself, and now I'm going to go talk on a podcast about something completely unrelated. However, I'm still speaking up, so it feels empowering to be able to share my story and share my own experience. And if it only helps me, fantastic. But if it helps one other person, two other people, several other people, then, like, that means everything to me.
Terra: What would you tell your younger self, that girl in the waiting room?
Asia: I think I would tell her that, like, I love her, I'm proud of her. You did what was best for yourself first and also for, you know, this wouldn't have worked out well. Like, if you would have moved forward with this decision, you would have been forever tied to this unhealthy partner. And how would that look for your child? Like, you know what that feels like to grow up in a home that is filled with dysfunction. Don't continue that cycle.
[Transition music starts and goes under]
Andi: My name is Andi Wilson and I live in Seattle, Washington.
Terra: Andi was in her late 20s when she found out she was pregnant. She was living in Brooklyn at the time, and like Lorraine, Niko, and Asia — she knew something was off and immediately confided in a roommate. After confirming her pregnancy with two tests, Andi knew she would be getting an abortion.
Andi: I just wasn't looking to be a parent any time soon in my life, but actually being pregnant and having like the feeling it puts your mind in a new place, of course, of like, well, what if I did keep it and what if I did change my life?
Terra: But she knew that wasn’t the right decision for her and it wasn’t a reality in her current long-distance relationship. So after telling her partner her decision, she made an appointment at Planned Parenthood. The next available one was in six days. And that’s when she decided to tell all of her roommates.
Andi: I told some people that night and, you know, everybody is hugging me and like, ‘we support you.’ And then one person specifically asked, like, ‘so are you going to be a mom or like, you're going to have a baby?’ Like, assuming I wouldn't have an abortion for some reason, that was the first one that kind of put me off. I was like, ‘oh, no, I don't think I'm planning on keeping it.’
One, in particular, was closer to the day I was having my abortion and a roommate was leaving for an international trip before Christmas and she asked if she could touch my belly. Yeah, and that was really shocking to me because I didn't want any emotional connection. I didn't want to think of it as a fetus or baby. It was an embryo to me. I did not want to think of it as a baby. So that was really upsetting, and I just had to tell her, no, I'm sorry, you can't do that, and that's not the way I think about this. And then she just left.
Terra: On the day of her abortion, she took the train to her local Planned Parenthood. She decided to go alone. Because she didn’t have health insurance, she had to pay $600 out of pocket for the procedure.
Andi: I was pretty miserable. It was not a comforting place to be, I will say. Had my ultrasound after that. And then they have to ask you if you're 100 percent sure you want to do it. And I think that was another hard part of it. It's just like being like, ‘yes, I'm sure. Please don't, like, make me question myself. Like, I just want to get through this.’ Then you go to the final step of talking to somebody. They just give you the pills, they instruct you what to do, give you numbers, a call if you have issues, and they try to see if they can also get you on birth control, which I didn't like. I'm like, ‘why do I have to talk about this now?’ Or they ask, ‘do you want to consider getting on birth control?; Which I think is a really biased way of telling somebody like, ‘oh, you shouldn't get pregnant again.’ Or it's like, ‘do you want to avoid getting abortion in the future?’ Which is not the way I personally look at abortion. I think somebody should be able to get as many abortions as they need or want to have.
Terra: After speaking to a counselor, Andi finally headed home. And says that she bought herself a slice of pizza before hopping on the train.
She spent the next few days alone at home, watching movies and resting with a heating pad and strong ibuprofen. She tells me that she felt emotional during that time and internally angry; processing feelings of isolation and wondering why this experience wasn’t talked about more.
Terra: How do you wish you would have been supported by those around you during that time?
Andi: I love that question. I just wish people would have asked me more of what I needed rather than focusing on the actual, like, ‘oh, Andi is going to abort a baby,’ like the way they saw it, I think, in their eyes. Or, ‘can I be there with you? Is there anything you need after your abortion?’ Like the aftercare is just as important as during, in my opinion. If I know anybody going through that, I just mostly want to listen to their experience too. I think a lot of people just need to talk about their experience and find some kind of common ground with people, or at least that's like what I needed afterwards.
It’s different for everyone. Pregnancy does not look the same across the board at all, but just kind of knowing like, oh, this is what taking the pills at home is probably going to look like and the timing of everything and these are the things you should have. I just think it's so important to share all the little details like that so people feel loved and supported and cared for and knowing that it's okay and abortion is completely normal. And however you feel about it, if you're sad about it, if you regret it, if you're like, that was such an easy decision for me. Everything is acceptable and completely valid.
Terra: For years now, Andi has been inspired to help others navigate their own abortions by sharing resources or helping council friends. She’s started training to become an abortion doula — learning from those who have worked as doulas for years to help with aftercare and extra support. She also has some advice for folks who want to learn more about abortion and it starts with the language we use. She says by simply using the words “abortion” or “pregnant people”, you can automatically make all people feel included in the conversation.
Andi: I do think people just need to be listening more. There's so many especially like, black leaders and queer leaders who've been again at the front of this for so long now. So I think follow them and take steps from there.
[Transition music begins and goes under]
Andi: This doesn't all have to be done overnight. This is going to keep happening for years and years to come. Like, who knows the full extent of what's going to happen. Because before you know it, you will probably know somebody close to you who's going to need that assistance.
Terra: I love what Andi says about this work not having to happen overnight. It’s easy to forget that. But the reality is that we should and need to make this work a part of our everyday life. And we need to have abortion come up in our everyday conversations. So that we can destigmatize this and see abortion for what it really is — a normal thing that happens every day.
And it can be a difficult and complex decision or it can be simple, but regardless, as all of them have explained — it’s never a careless decision.
I want to thank Lorraine, Niko, Asia, and Andi for sharing their stories with us. For most of them, this was the first time they had sat down and talked about their experience so openly. I’m so honored to have shared this space with them.
[Transition music swells and ends]
Terra: On the next episode of “This Is What It Feels Like” …
Mike Rafter: All the unanswered questions I was saving up for him since I was 14 that I … that he stole from me.”
Terra: Losing a parent to suicide. This is a personal one for me.
[Transtition music goes under and fades out]
For the season finale of “This Is What It Feels Like,” I sit down with two friends who have also lost a parent to suicide. It’s one of the most healing and difficult conversations I’ve ever had.
[Theme music begins and goes under]
“This Is What It Feels Like” is a production of CapRadio. Hosted and produced by me – Terra Lopez.
Jen Picard produced and edited the show. Sally Longenecker our executive producer.
Original theme song and music produced by Wes Jones.
Paul Conley is our sound designer.
Chris Bruno is in charge of marketing. Our designs were created by Marisa Espiritu. Renee Thompson is our Digital Products Manager.
We’d like to thank Asia Cummings, Niko Bellote, Lorraine Allard, and Andi Wilson for their vulnerability and for sharing their incredibly powerful stories with us.
Lastly, I want to thank Carl & Sue Miller whose generous gift was instrumental in making this podcast come to life.
If you want to make sure you don’t miss any episodes, follow or subscribe to this podcast. We’ve got links to resources in our show notes. For photos of our guests and more information, visit capradio-dot-org-slash-FEELS.
Thanks for listening to “This Is What It Feels Like.”