Wu Fei: One thing that doesn't change me is there's nothing that will get in between me and my happiness. Even like tomorrow if I die, I'm the happiest person that I feel like. Wow, I've lived a very fulfilling life.
[Theme Music starts: “We Need a Room,” Sky Creature]
Majel Connery: From CapRadio, this is A Music of Their Own. An interview podcast about women in music. We hear stories of survival and perseverance, and we explore why being a woman in music is so different from being a man. I'm your host, Majel Connery, and in this first season, we're meeting women in classical music where the number of men vastly exceeds the number of women. The women I interview on this podcast are some of the success stories. They are the ones who have risen to the top of their field against the odds. And as a woman in music myself, I want to understand what they are doing that makes them different, that makes them stand out. This is A Music of Their Own, from CapRadio. We'll be right back.
[Theme Music ends: “We Need a Room,” Sky Creature]
Majel Connery: Welcome back. I'm Majel Connery.
[Music starts: “When Syringa Falls”]
Majel Connery: My guest on this podcast is a composer, singer and master of a Chinese zither called the Guzheng. Her name is Wu Fei. Fei has collaborated with Grammy-winning musicians Bela Fleck and percussionist Billy Martin of Medeski, Martin and Wood. She's appeared at major world venues, including the Forbidden City Concert Hall in Beijing, the 2010 Shanghai Expo and the New York Museum of Modern Art.
[Music underneath: “When Syringa Falls”]
Majel Connery: This episode is about the paths we take and how the paths we take inform the person we become. Fei was brought up in an ultra rigorous classical environment in China, where she was put on a path toward becoming a composer. But Fei is also a singer, and in this first part of our conversation, we talk about how she went off the path to discover her voice.
You have trained extensively in multiple instruments and you talk a lot about your training and how you come to be acquainted with instruments. But you don't talk a lot about your voice, and yet you vocalize a lot in your music. So I'm just really curious to know about the development of your singing voice.
Wu Fei: You know, there's a term there. There's two terms in Chinese. One is trained, which means profession. One is amateur. So if you didn't go through the vocal training as a voice major, then culturally I don't consider myself as a vocalist. Is it just the structure, the institution there? Is that a black and white? Well, once I started in the conservatory, I was accepted as a composition student. I wasn't accepted as an instrumentalist. They are black and white. Like if you're a composer doing us, think about performing. Stick with your pencil and pen. If you are a performer, don't even think about composing. You are there to play other people's music.
Majel Connery: So, I mean, you have a very powerful, expressive voice. Like you can sing quietly or you can wail. But even now, you don't speak about the process of finding your singing voice or feeling liberated in that particular way. Like, how does it make you feel to sing on albums with your body? That's just like it's a really crazy journey, you know?
Wu Fei: To me, I had a lot of vocal training. I even as a composition student because how to sing, you know, so fast, so fast. It's very much of a voice training, but it was more of a pitch training rather than you got to sing in the perfect tones, was in perfect vocal register. When I moved back to China or to Beijing to my home city for five years after living all over America, I was drawn to traditional music again. So I studied Chinese ching-hsi opera, which is one of the hardest way opera to sing. So that made me also realized that if you can sing Chinese opera, then sing other songs. It's like a piece of cake.
Majel Connery: I mean, I found in a couple other interviews that there is this kind of fear of acting the amateur in in folks who are trained in particular disciplines like you are trained, you're really trained in composition and you're really trained in Guzheng and you were really trained in classical western piano. And I wondered, I sort of had this hunch that you might harbor doubts about whether it was appropriate to assert yourself as a vocalist and whether you ever worry about getting called out for it professionally.
Wu Fei: I didn't write even for I didn't even add singer in my bio until, who knows, the last like maybe less than ten years or maybe the last six years because I did a few because I think carrying that cultural, you know, you say baggage or anything subconsciously is you never felt. I grew up with professional singers, my schoolmates you know, all the mega opera singers in China currently are my schoolmates, were my schoolmates. We lived in the same dorm together for six years. So I cannot sing like they are singers.
Majel Connery: Yeah. And do you not find that that bias exists in the States as well?
Wu Fei: Way less than China. My only comparison is Chinese style. So my voice was. I was liberated. Seriously, because that's the only comparison I had when I came here. Like, Wow, I can do all of these things.
Majel Connery: I totally understand how much more present and maybe even oppressive this might feel in a Chinese context. But I find that that the disambiguation between what it means to be an amateur versus what it means to be a trained performer exists here in the States, too. And it's like it's a mark of pride. If you have training and it's like a badge of shame if you don't. And yet there are people among us who have not attended school who are some of the best. I mean, you're on Smithsonian Folkways. Some of the best folk singers in the world, obviously didn't go to conservatory to learn what they did. But like this, there is a sort of cultural shame even in this country that's exerted sort of subconsciously on us. And and I was just interested to explore the extent to which you feel that.
Wu Fei: Oh, absolutely. You are right on point. Yeah, it does exist. What music is is, is whether it should just. Good and touch people's heart. That's really that's the music that has lasted in human history, rather. And most my singers you know, professional singer classmates, school mates, when I hear them sing, you know, it's like it was really restrained. And because of all that and I don't feel touched by their singing, they're very skilled singers, but it doesn't bring my tears now.
[Music: "Buddah”]
Majel Connery: You're listening here to Fei. I'm sure you guessed. Singing with her collaborator, Abigail Washburn. This is on their self-titled album on Smithsonian Folkways. And the track is called "Buddha." What strikes me about this track is that Fei's voice, as unique as it is, blends so well with the voice of a bluegrass musician. It's one of these things that makes her really striking as a musician. This protean quality as unique as her sound is, she can fit into almost any musical niche. As artists and as human beings, as we travel on our own peculiar little paths, the paths themselves can be pretty winding, pretty elusive. There's a really important juncture and phase path that she references a lot, and it involves a well-known improviser called Fred Frith, who taught Fei at Mills College. Frith, the anecdote goes, told Fei something that rocked her world. He said he did not see her in her compositional music. And this stunned Fei, so much so that she abandoned one path entirely for a new one. I wanted to hear way more about what really went on here. What exactly did she realize and how exactly did she create a new path out of nothing? And how long did it take?
Wu Fei: So when I came to the States, I was overjoyed to see any music that was not a conservatory, music that I had never seen in my life, like marching band for sport. I was like, Wow, these are really awesome percussionists. Like, so, you know, where I grew up, there's like a total of 500 people in one school from high school to we had no marching band and no sports teams. And, and to Western African Drumming Ensemble and then to Northern Indian raga groups. Lima was in Texas. It was you know, that's truly America is an immigrant country. That's where I discovered music that people when they came to this country to bring their music here. And I was blown away. And that was quickly, two years. And then I came to Oakland and Mills. That's another like that institution that just went some the most pioneer way of creating music. Sound, sound, art. I was really, really out there I would say. And then I started talking to my professors and and then they told me one of those it really was Fred, you need to let go of all that training, because in the West, or at least here, the reason you compose music is you feel like it because no one forced you to write music, right? Like you want to, you know, it's like you want to talk no one for you to talk. You know you want to talk about will you want to talk about?
I barely enjoyed playing music when I was a student. Like, you know, my American colleagues were happy when they were playing music. My Chinese colleagues looked cranky when they played music because they hated being there, because everyone was trained like same way as me. They were there to fulfill a duty. So I was definitely influenced by just seeing my friends in America playing music, feeling happy and and expressive influence. It was a wow. It's actually supposed to be happy, not supposed to be, you know, heavy, heavy, hard hearted. And so I just had to rewind my life. I stayed home basically for about a week after I had that class with Fred. And just to rewind my life, like, how did I get here? I have all this craft, but I've never written something truly for myself, and I thought that was the saddest life. I was a wonder, like pretty deep, deep depression. Like I was defined. I was the music trophy child in my entire life for my family, for my school, for the city of Beijing, nationally, you know, I was a trophy. I was winning competitions live, you know, like music the music jeopardy of China over use and winning medals. So, you know, thinking about that, I was on the ivory tower of Chinese youth musician and then I did all of that for someone else basically. And at age of 24 or something, I felt like, wow, I really wasted my life. So I consider even to draft music, to just do something else, just to, to, to try what that feels like that I wasn't put on this path by someone else. I chose that path for myself. I want to try that. But it was like some of the most scary things, you know, like that's the only thing I knew. I thought I would just give it one last try and I started playing with my schoolmates at the Improvisation Ensemble. And then I was just playing the Guzheng and it was the, you know, the tunes that I know from childhood just to hear a moment and I start playing this and everyone smiled. Everyone loved it. It was like five seconds or something, 10 seconds. And that was the moment I thought, like, ‘Wow, I could do this.’ I felt joy with my colleagues. And that was the first time I remember. Everyone loved it. And when I started to smile like a child. To smile. So since then, I. I just, you know, I learned how to fly. That was the moment I learned and really tested my wings for the first time, like 25-year-old bird trying to fly. But I should have done that by the age of five. I think it gives me tears. Really?
[Music starts: "Clouds of Birds”]
Majel Connery: This is a song called "Cloud of Birds" from Fei's album, A Distant Youth. Fei is playing here with the violinist Karla Killshot and managing to sound almost like a harp. Texturally, this piece is unlike anything I have ever encountered. But yet again, you hear how she somehow manages to make this very unique sound belong in the context of instruments that normally don't go together. More from Wu Fei on A Music of Their Own after this break. We'll be right back.
[Music ends: "Clouds of Birds"]
Majel Connery: One of the things that makes Fei remarkable as a person and as a musician is her resilience. We're about to cover some details about Fei's life that will illustrate for you why I say that even in the most difficult moments of phase life, she has an incredible gift for figuring out how to regroup and get back on her path. I'm going to just let Fei take it away here.
Wu Fei: One thing that doesn't change me is there's nothing will get in between me and my happiness. I'm very content about my music. I love every piece. Literally is like they're all my children. I have absolutely zero doubt about my music. And even like tomorrow I die. I'm the happiest person that I feel like, wow, I've lived a very fulfilling life. So every day is a gift. So with that content feeling, I know I just don't care anymore. I mean, life is too short. I mean, like, it's still, you know, nothing get to between me and my happiness and whether I can change others view to look at me. I mean, hey. Oh, I don't really care. I that's up to them, then, everyone. There's no wrong or right.
Majel Connery: Well, let me cut in, Fei, because I think you're articulating something that resonates so awesomely with me right now in my own career. But I, I want to just push you to say more. So you said a few moments ago, if I died tomorrow, I know that I would be happy. Was there some forcing function or some like good thing or bad thing that really caused you to have to clarify this for yourself?
Wu Fei: Maybe one thing or one event in my life that I've just stopped feeling any confusion. When my first child was born, she had to go into surgery right away, like 15 hours after her birth. And so we spent four, 7 hours. She spent the first seven weeks of her life in the NICU in Beijing. And then to two nights, I think a nice out of the seven weeks were literally the doctor calling me in the middle of the night saying like, well, we can't wait for you to show. Obviously, you have to give us a verbal, verbal agreement on this thing, otherwise we might lose her. It was like, okay, go ahead and do it. And then she's like, and then we left the hospital some weeks later and she's been perfect. That experience made me realize, wow, my family was like just one moment away from being completely shattered. I just thought if I could live through that time, it was really the darkest time in my life. I could deal with anything. Every day is a gift, really, since that event, every day is a gift. So I want to live every day as if it is my last day on the planet.
Majel Connery: You know what I'm struck by right now? It's not it's not necessarily the things that you are saying, like, you know, live every day, like it's your last day and it's that you mean it in a way that I have almost never heard anybody mean it. And I know where it comes from. In your case, I understand why you have this incredible resilience and that it is real.
Wu Fei: Oh, yeah. I've got thick skin. I've got this, I mean, this thick skin. I've just, you know, probably exercised since I was a kid because, you know, doing it, doing competitions when you are being on the hours that you got knocked out on stage, you know, just seeing the disappointment from your parents face among 200 other parents, you know, like if I can deal with that and it would be really like.
Majel Connery: Wait a minute, you did competitions where there would be hundreds of parents sitting in an auditorium setting and your failure to advance would be announced from stage?
Wu Fei: Yes, all the time. Every single one of them. Wow. Since I was nine. Or level.
Majel Connery: Of humiliation. Oh, my God.
Wu Fei: I mean, that's that's oh, that's so like not only from music but from regular school. Just my elementary school, middle school. After each midterm or final exams, our names would be put on the good students. The top 50 were put on the red board and then the bottom 50 were put on a white board. Or and then one, we try to get under the Conservatory High School. That was the most notorious competition ever in my life. I felt like I really was reborn, that the first round, you know, the parents had to go to the conservatory to look at a public board to see if your children's kid's names are on the next round. And then my mom, she said it was like, cause me and my dad wouldn't dare to go. And my mom's okay, I have to go. But she said it was like the third slowest bike ride in her life. So she felt like her legs were like cotton, so soft and slow. She was probably literally having, you know, a panic attack while she was riding the bike to find out if her daughter advanced. And then, you know, and then she saw my name and oh, gosh. But she literally saw other parents bawling, like kneeling down on the ground, crying in front of her. One other parent was like, Oh, my kids are in. You know, it was like that. So that was my whole whole life before I came to the States, it was every year we had to deal with that.
[Music starts: "Minikin Warrior”]
Majel Connery: You're hearing two songs here. The first one is "Minikin Warrior," and the second one is called "When Syringa Falls." These are songs that Fei co-wrote with her collaborator Gyan Riley on their album Pluck. In a musical context, a plucker is anyone who plucks the strings of a stringed instrument. So here we have two instruments, the Guzheng and the acoustic guitar, which come from totally different worlds. But they sound so compatible and so organic together.
[Music continues: “Minikin Warrior”]
Majel Connery: The trouble with a path is that when you're on the path, it doesn't feel like a path. There is no clear beginning. There is no clear middle. There's certainly no clear end. And when you're on your path, it can just feel like a mess. In Fei’s case, her path felt like an avalanche for a few moments in her life.
[Music crosses over: “When Syringa Falls”]
Majel Connery: But the gift that Fei was given is that she was able to interpret her way out of these moments. She was faced with the death of a child, possibly. She was faced with the possible end of a career. And she faced both of these things. She internalized them. She processed them. She got up and she got back on the path. And days after speaking to Fei, I am still moved, by the way, that she has acquired a suit of armor from these experiences. Nothing can touch her now. She just seems indestructible. I think we should all have that. So to me, the lesson here is that we should embrace the gnarliest moments on our path, the worst and darkest and most inchoate feelings that we feel. Because those are the moments that we actually have the opportunity to learn to build a suit of armor and to move forward.
[Music ends: "When Syringa Falls”]
[Music starts: “Balun”]
Majel Connery: Next time on A Music of Their Own. Big commissions come with big responsibilities. Angelica Negron breaks down what happens when they do.
Angelica Negron: It's not inviting the people. That's like the bare minimum. It's how you treat them when they're there. I'm there for a reason, and I deserve that same respect that other white male composers that are involved in those spaces have.
Majel Connery: That's next time on A Music of Their Own from CapRadio.
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[Music ends: “Balun”]
[Theme Music starts: “We Need a Room,” Sky Creature]
Majel Connery: A Music of Their Own is a CapRadio production. Interviews were engineered and produced by me, Majel Connery and edited by Kevin Doherty. Paul Conley mastered the mix. Sally Shilling is our executive producer with production assistance from Jen Picard. Chris Hagan is our digital editor. Chris Bruno is in charge of marketing. Our designs were created by Marissa Espiritu. Renee Thompson is our digital projects manager and our social media is run by Emmy Gilbert and Emily Zentner. The theme song for A Music of Their Own is called “We Need a Room,” and it's by my band Sky Creature. You can find the song and Sky Creature on all major audio platforms. Don't forget to follow a music of their own wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you're hearing, please leave us a rating and a review so others can find this podcast, too. To find out more about the guests on our podcast, go to the show notes or visit capradio.org/amusicoftheirown. Thanks for listening.
[Theme Music ends: “We Need a Room,” Sky Creature]
